Conversation Forum

 

Temporarily suspended

 

 

This is an open forum for comments, questions and discussion on and about this Website and the Programme.

 

I have reversed the order of the list so that you no longer have to scroll all the way through the forum to see the latest posts.

 

 

 

 

Created	Title	Posted By	Comments and Questions
30/10/2008	Emotions	Stella	I am new to the programme and am catching uo on the units but am pressed to say to Linda that YES there must be a difference bewteen what it says are knee jerk reations and feelings that come up that have got nothing to do with my childhood and on which "I" work on and try to overcome. Or as Thgeo said I'm not a computer either! Thanks.
25/10/2008	emotions	Linda	I'm not a PC either! I've just received unit 6 and tried the roll mop game (sorry, Game!). I don't think I have 'got it' yet but while I was doing it I think I realised what was meant by "from our "I" stream we engage in the activity of judging what is happening" - it's me (or rather"I") that chooses to do it not a computer! Isn't this the real point?
25/10/2008	Sense of emotion	Theo	Has anybody else read Daniel Goman's book? I think its now a best seller and where I work the idea of an EQ has been widely used - there are tests now for EQ. But it all still seems to be based on the brain as a computer that can be re-programmed.There seems to be something really missing from this - people frightened to admit that 'deep yearning' stream mentioned in previous units. I'm not a computer!!!!!!!!!
29/09/2008	Back to work!	John Bewick	----------------------------------------It has been very quiet since Jane's last posting! But... it's Michaelmass - a good time to get started again. Unit 5 explores the transformation of our senses. (Thanks to Chriss for his work on the website, with more changes forthcoming.)
29/07/2008	hello	jane c	It's gone very quiet out there.... I've just managed to read unit 3 and need to lie in the garden to digest it.
18/06/2008	Ethel - Sounds Words Concepts	John B	It surely is a profoundly interesting line of enquiry. You can find one of the lecture series that Rudolf Steiner gave on this theme in "Genius of Language" pub. Anthroposophic Press. This was also a principal theme for Owen Barfield.
17/06/2008	What's happening when we talk about triangles	John B	Our thoughtful conversation about triangles can nudge us towards what it means to explore the world through thinking, and illustrates the "4th T" in the notes and presentation, which to paraphrase:I sat alone in my thinking about "triangle". My thinking prompted by my own perceptions emphasised my seperateness from everything else. But my thinking also led me beyond myself connecting me to everyone else. 'T' - Through thinking we are a part of the world and apart from it.
17/06/2008	onomatapia(spelling)	ethel	Fascinating comments ,I would be interested to think how concepts arose from sounds .eg slip,crunch
17/06/2008	triangles	jane c	Surely if we're all talking about a 'triangle' then we assume we're using the same definition- the usual being 'a 3-sided polygon with straight sides, whose angles add up to 180 degrees', at least that's what I think a triangle is. Then we can all see a similar picture. It underlines the fact that we have to define words, or use the common meaning, to be able to talk about concepts, otherwise we could all have a different idea in our heads. (Apparently there are different types of triangle in maths, eg. on the surface of a sphere, which has bent sides. But many people wouldn't know this, so it doesn't need to be an issue unless someone brings it up.)
13/06/2008	Triangles	Jo H	I feel I am being really slow on the uptake here. As I see it, ‘we’ can talk about triangles because there is a word "triangle" and ‘we’ all understand the basics of what a triangle is. This understanding is important because if, say, Ann mistakenly believes a triangle has 6 sides and joins the conversation she is not actually talking about triangles despite believing she is and using the word. I do not see though why there has to be a ‘uniform concept’ that we all share. A triangle can be defined in many different ways so I take it we are not talking about a minimum definition. Is the pure thought-picture simply ‘that which enables us to talk about triangles’?
12/06/2008	Thinking about triangles	John B.	What about this...The fact that Jo and Theo and now me can have a conversation about the thought-picture/concept, "triangle" is dependent on there being one uniform concept, "triangle" - but we first of all need thinking in order to get to it. What makes the conversation so interesting is that we each grasp it in our own individual way. As soon as we individually perceive some thing and thinking begins, all manner of feelings and associations usually jump in(eg, projective use of line and point, three arc shapes, etc)to create our own individual mental picture(Unit 2,p.17)of a triangle. But the pure thought-picture "triangle" simply is.
11/06/2008	Reality and faith	Jo H	I suggest that “a knowing experience” is something that we literally sense. Whether we can name the sense (sixth sense?) or describe scientifically how it functions is another matter. “Faith is the bird etc” is lovely language and I feel humility in the presence of such a beautiful turn of phrase but as a definition it leaves a lot to be desired. It is open to many interpretations. To me it is saying that even though you can’t see something you just know it is there or going to be there, not because it has happened before , as in morning coming after night, but because you know it by a means that cannot be scientifically described eg the ability to feel light . This sort of faith, or sense, I am very interested to explore. I hope part of that exploration would include an analysis to ensure that it was something different from a feeling or belief derived from information gained from a variety of sources such as past experience, the 5 everyday senses, cultural beliefs etc.
11/06/2008	Brainwashing	Jo H	I have little knowledge of brainwashing but I thought it could be done without the “brainwashee” necessarily being aware of the process. Hence they would not knowingly surrender control. They would believe that they were in charge of their own thoughts and would believe their thoughts and beliefs were their own. I look forward to thinking about the enduring”I”. I have a feeling that it might be a similar concept to a triangle!
11/06/2008	Thinking	Jo H	"I have to think a thought in order to own it and thinking is an activity that I control." I agree that I appear to be able to control thinking at times and a thought would not be my thought unless I “thinked” it.. I still suggest though from my previous example that there appear to be times when “I” cannot consciously control my thinking. It seems to happen, spontaneously. It appears that one part of my brain is reasoning that it is more sensible to stop thinking and get some sleep whilst another part of my brain keeps throwing up the worrying thought even though nothing can be done about it. If that is what you mean by controlling our thinking then I understand and agree but control to me suggests “being in command of” rather than” initiate”.
11/06/2008	Jo's triangles	Jo H	That, Theo, is precisely what I was getting at. Your concept of a triangle seems to be that it is a closed shape that has three straight sides and so the three angles add up to 180 degrees, which in Euclidean geometry is true. Someone else’s may just be, it has three straight sides, and I’ve met people who think that to be a triangle it must be symmetrical. But there are triangles that exist in other geometries, such as projective geometry and elliptical geometry that have different qualities and to me the thought “a triangle” includes these, hence one person’s concept of a triangle is not, in any meaningful sense, necessarily the same as everyone else’s.
10/06/2008	Reality and faith	John B.	I don't think we can validate the residual reality of 'something else' with only our ordinary senses and the ways we ordinarily use them these days. And yet I suggest, someone having a profoundly 'knowing' experience that something is so (even if they misjudge the event)is not so uncommon. The proposition (and one we can practically explore) is that we have the capability for strengthening such an everyday experience into a consciously controlled and objective experience of reality. This would be a reality that bridges science and faith (NOT dogma)- faith as in, "Faith is the bird that feels the light when the dawn is still dark." [Rabindranath Tagore] Or so I humbly submit...
10/06/2008	Thinking & brainwashing	John B.	Jo's point about the 'first T' suggests to me that a better wording might be, "I have to think a thought in order to own it and thinking is an activity that I control." If I have the capability to control it why indeed is it usually so difficult to control? During 'brainwashing' we presumably cede control to another. Doesn't the effectiveness of e.g., "re-programming", indoctrination and "CBT", depend on how far 'I choose to think a thought, own and control it' and how far my everyday self submits to suggestion and example? Big questions - the next unit tries to distinguish between the enduring "I" of who I am and its reflection in our everyday self. Any thoughts?!
10/06/2008	Jo's triangles	Theo	I thought any triangle whatever its shape alweays had three angles that add up to 180 degrees...the shape of mine might be different to yours but not differ in that concept....?
08/06/2008	Jane's memory bubble 1	Jo H	I'm sure people would think it was still you as long as you still looked similar even if you changed your habits dramatically, but then we are all changing a bit everyday so we accept this as normal. If you dramatically changed your thoughts, habits etc people might say you're not the person you used to be, but I doubt they would feel entitled to treat you as a completely different person if they can see that you still inhabit the same physical body.
08/06/2008	Faith	Jo H	Simplicity of faith brings enormous fortitude, vitality and humility. The ‘Victorian’, we are told, had tremendous fortitude and vitality because they had faith that they were right. They invaded other countries bringing Christianity and British justice and plundering countries’ resources in a way that today we are sometimes ashamed of. Is this fortitude and vitality we are talking about? What is humble about believing that the thing you have faith in is right even though you can’t prove it in any, normally accepted, way to someone else? To me that sounds like arrogance. Isn’t not believing anything unless you feel it can be proved a more humble position to be in?
08/06/2008	Residual Reality	Jo H	There remains a ‘residual reality’ to the thing. How do you know there is something else if you cannot access this from your senses?
08/06/2008	Concepts	Jo h	A triangle is a universal concept identical for everyone who thinks it. I have studied some mathematics. I can think of triangles that contain two, even three right angles. Is your concept of a triangle really the same as mine?
08/06/2008	Brainwashing	Jo H	We would certainly resent being brainwashed. If you are not aware the brainwashing had occurred you wouldn’t resent it. If a company offered a brainwashing package such that after it you would lead a more enjoyable, successful life, or your money back, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some takers. Some people willingly become members of religious sects that apparently brainwash their members into enjoying self sacrifice and devotion to a scientifically unproveable supernatural being. These people often declare themselves to be happy.
08/06/2008	Thinking	Jo Hallgarth	"Thinking only happens when we want it to happen. Thinking is an activity we control." These statements don’t seem to me to be true. What do we mean by ‘we’,‘want’ and ‘control’? eg I am trying to get to sleep but my mind keeps thinking about a problem at work. Ideas about what I need to do the next day or should have done the day before keep coming into my mind. I tell myself not to think about it, that I will cope with it better tomorrow after a good night’s sleep, I try quoting poetry to myself to take my mind off the worrying thoughts so I can sleep but I keep finding myself thinking about work. Am ‘I’ really wanting to think? Am I controlling my thinking?
06/06/2008	memory bubble 1	jane c	I seem to be a big group of habits, both actions and thoughts. So if I changed them, would people still think it was me?
04/06/2008	Mailing - Jane C	John B	You're quite right Jane. I'd actually sent out two seperate mailings to different folk on the programme and had intended them both to have a blind address. I'll click the right button for all future mailings!
03/06/2008	Observing people	Theo	So that is what Greek plays are about! I guess with Jos point I just ry not to stare but observe with a feeling of a sort of affection for the person. (and not take notes!)
02/06/2008	mailing	jane c	Got my mailing thanks. Looks great, but got to finish my homeopathy homework before I play. Would you mind sending the next one out as a blind copy- I don't know anyone on the address list and from past experience I'm just a little bit paranoid....
30/05/2008	Handouts	Karen	Hi. Received the emails. Many thanks. Looking forward to attending again
28/05/2008	Mailing	Theo NZ	Good morning from here & thanks for email & slideshow. Not got into the Game yet.
28/05/2008	mail handouts	Jo Hallgarth	Has anyone ever closely observed a non-volunteer before? How do you do it without causing embarrassment or suspicion? My desk at work faces away from everyone else. Hopefully it will be a long time before I next see a doctor so I'll try that part at the reflexologist's tomorrow.
28/05/2008	RE: mail handouts	Caroline	Thanks for the email. The first session was great ; I'll be there on the 4th.
06/05/2008	Agile mind	Avril	I enjoyed the video. I also am interested in the content of this site, particularly the theme of memory. Looking forward to hearing more about the memory games.
06/05/2008	Linda S - The Programme	John B	Thanks. This should be made clear. There is no charge or fee of any kind for the web programme so long as the material can be emailed.
06/05/2008	Anne - Website	John B	Re the page on Rudolf Steiner - you're quite right and will make amends. See also the Links page. Thanks.
05/05/2008	Message Admin	Chriss	Apologies, I have had to resize the forum to prevent a distortion of the contents.
05/05/2008	The Programme	Linda Seymour	I've also just come across the site but could it be made clear if there is any cost involved. Thanks.
05/05/2008	Website	Anne	I just happened to come across this site and am intrigued to see how it develops. Can I suggest that the page on "Who was Rudolf Steiner?" seems a little sparse? A little more please?
05/05/2008	Most impressed	John	Thanks, David. Email on its way. Please also refer to the Links page for just a few other anthroposophical sites.
04/05/2008	Most Impressed	David	I am impressed to find an anthroposophical website which has fully embraced the medium of the internet. I look forward to finding out more about your programme.
02/05/2008	Ready to begin	Chriss	The testing phase is now complete and the message board is fully functional.
01/05/2008	Conversation Forum	John	We are open!
01/05/2008	Message Board is working at last!!!	Chriss	I would like to declare this message board open for business.....

 

 

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